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Notorious Owners
Crew Confessor
Posted: Sunday, December 26, 2010 2:53 PM
Joined: 20/11/2008
Posts: 94

Posted: Monday, August 29, 2011 6:44 PM
How do I warn other crew about a notorious owner??
Posted: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:55 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Dont waste your time. Most owners are detached or ignorant with what goes down on their yacht. If you need to dump on someone or deliver a painful double eye poke, go after the notorious captains and management companies who make it possible for notorious owners to run their yachts. If you don't get paid, if the work conditions or vibes on the yacht are subnormal...TRASH THE CAPTAINS NAME.
Posted: Monday, August 29, 2011 10:16 PM
A good Captain can turn a bad owner, but few captains care for change unless it suits them and their pockets.
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 5:54 PM
Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 88

It gets known usually, but try "yachtie beware " page on Facebook. [Comment removed for violating forum guidelines]

Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:29 PM
Joined: 14/01/2009
Posts: 1024

It wont work...even the best yachts, run by captains and management with integrity, fire crew. Always your best defense is experience...sea time. Soon all the bad yachts , there are hundreds of them, will become obvious. One way to avoid bad yachts is to avoid crew agents. A good yacht doesn't need to scape bottom and recruit thru an agent. Yachts with high crew turnover and a poor reputation have no choice.
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 9:09 PM
Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 12

Why not? Let others to know who are bastards and also,who are gentlemens...
Pat the Cat
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 9:20 PM
Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 1

All crew should have the right to know of a bad owner!
If the owner can't get crew maybe he or she will sell the boat to an owner that deserves a boat , bad owner's don't.
I only reason crew join a known bad boat its for money and thats their choose

Kristen C-S
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 9:29 PM
Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 2

When in doubt, "less is more." You can let other crew know about a "notorious owner" sometimes by what you don't say. You can do so by saying e.g. "I've worked for 'Notorious' and I would not do it again; and I'll leave it at that." There's no need to go on and on to other crew (or anyone), i.e. chatter & gossiping; it only puts you as a person on a level no better than they. The "word" does get around anyway. Call me if you need more... And, if you keep your "informing" to my suggested sentence above, or a similarly evasive one, no one can touch you, legally for anything!
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 9:45 PM
Discretion has always been a major factor in the yachting industry. And both the integrity of the owner, captain, and crew should be stressed, as there is both good and bad in all areas. Owners also read Dockwalk. Any crew member has the right to "walk" if they are not happy on a yacht, but they do not have the right to "bad mouth" anyone, owner or crew. Let's keep in mind that we really don't know who may be to fault in a bad situation.
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 9:55 PM
Junior, To make generalized statements about captains is unfair. Regardless of rank we all perform our best within a difficult environment and in some cases for the benefit of the client with their personal ethos and corporate swag. It doesn't help when a client refuses to honor crew contracts, provides below average allowances for food, and basic crew needs. I have had the misfortune of working for a client that has nothing but contempt for the entire industry, its crew, managers and will take any opportunity to steal from the health and well being of the crew. Suffice to say I left and so have many others since. There is nothing anyone could do in this situation to prepare for the unscrupulous financial motives when working for this type of client. Owners like this should be shamed and named.
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 10:33 PM
The majority of Captains are professional and do their best to ensure harmony among crew and owners. Unfortunately, a small percentage of owners just simply don't care about the well-being of their crew. Nor do they appreciate the professionalism the Captain displays by attempting to maintain harmony. Always speak with your Captain if you find the boat owner is constantly being difficult. And the old saying "In one ear, out the next" works wonders. Remember, try your best not to let others dictate your emotions. I, along with numerous other crew members, worked on a boat called "Integrity" and the owners had no morales whatsoever and there was no hope for harmony. They are the ones suffering though, as they cannot keep crew. Remember, be open with your Captain in a professional manner but DO NOT hinder your Captain with constant whining. Good Luck!
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 10:38 PM
In response to your comment Junior, you should never "trash the Captains name". The majority of Captains work hard and put their time in. It is unprofessional to speak poorly of others, especially in a public forum. You will only hurt yourself by "trashing a Captains name". If you have a problem with an individual, be a professional and mature and speak to that individual face to face to resolve the problem. Remember the rule in life, never burn bridges. Being negative gets you nowhere except damaging your own reputation.
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 10:40 PM
Joined: 03/03/2011
Posts: 100

This is along the lines of a question I posed a few months ago after departing on my own accord from what was my worst experience to date. I did ask about a list of good and bad employers and as much as I like the idea, I still struggle to find ways that the information gathered and held could be verified so that it could be used accurately, after all both sides of the story need to be heard. After more than a few years in the industry I am certain that the poorly operated boats prey on newbies and those in need of experience because lets be honest, newbies just don't know what's good and what's not. It has to be, anyone with knowledge will walk away within a month. My recently renewed rules of engagement - Listen to gossip and filter it as YOU see fit - if many people are saying similar things, maybe there is truth in there somewhere. Never take a boat on 'blind', check it out before you agree to join. If they use a yacht agent - check them out too - agents can and do cause huge problems. Remember, a probation or trial period is not just for the boat to assess you, it's for you to assess the boat and crew too. If in doubt - go with your gut instinct and never be so skint that you can't afford to buy your own ticket home Now, before you assume that the use of recruitment agents is a bad indication of crew turn over - I did have one agent from Palma contact me once asking about a boat I had worked on and why it was turning over so many staff - when I explained the issues to her, she told me she would no longer deal with that vessel. Remember, crew turn over via agents means that credits have to be issued, additional work they don't get paid for - eventually they will get annoyed with a bad boat too.
Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 12:18 AM
Joined: 12/07/2010
Posts: 57

Lets just assume that all owners are e'hem,, notorious or soon will be. that way nobody gets there feelings hurt or assumes they have familiar type relationships with the owners or guests. unless paid properly of coarse.
Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 4:48 AM
In my opinion, There has always been a rule, What happens here, stays here! Never talk about the owner and his/her friends & guests! Unless you have something positive to say about what happens with your crew. Keep your opinions to yourself. What does not work for you may not necessarily be the rule of life. Let us not forget that we all come from very different walks of life.If you do't like your present situation, find another boat unless you can work it out with your crew. Your opinions have nothing to do with the owner, it is about your crew family. Our boss pays us to look out for his/her best interests with his/her investment. Take your problems to your Captain or 1st mate. If you cannot resolve things, Push Off ! When you are in the bar or anywhere in the world you keep the personal side of crew relationships and debacles to yourself! We all live on top of each other. We live a weird dichotomy of family once removed.After 14 years working in this industry, My best crew friends/family are the ones I had a major bark with. Too many crew have a hard time with criticism and are so inflexible when we let things out, it becomes detrimental. This is a tough life in many ways, learn to recognize whether it is right for you.What I do for a living/lifestyle may not be right for you. For me, it was never about money.
Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 6:08 AM
Joined: 05/12/2010
Posts: 3

A lesson I learned a long time ago, was it's always better to say less then more, as it always comes back to bite you later. The most difficult owners can be the ones that teach us the most. It's not always easy and I myself have sat in the bar complaining with other crew, however, I have learned that complaining to others is quite boring to those who are not really listening. As others have said before, high crew turnover is usually a big hint as to an owner or crew problems. There is always three sides to a story; yours, theirs, and the truth and lets not forget that a captain might be getting his experience and is powerless to correct a situation. There are three choices; deal with it, find another job, or find another career, as this is not for everybody. If you ever make it to captain, it will indicate that you have learned not to air your boats dirty laundry for all to see.

Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 6:50 AM
I've worked for an owner that treated crew like slaves, paid late, withheld pay until people came back from holidays and left people at the dock with no repatriation flight, until customs and immigration instructed them to repatriate people. Most crew know precisely which owner I'm talking about and know they they burn through crew have a new boat coming out and will be recruiting. At the end of the day if it sounds to good it is and if there is no crew contract be prepared to be taken advantage of until you leave.
Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:57 PM
Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 88

I, like most know a handful of boats that I steer everyone away from which I listed in my post above & dockwalk deleted it for "violating forum guidelines", however when a captain or a boat has a incident (I.e. Recent accidents in Croatia & woods hole) the names of boats & crew can be smeared all over these forums...don't quite get that one.
Posted: Thursday, September 1, 2011 3:32 AM
Joined: 16/07/2008
Posts: 11

What one crew member might think is a bad owner may not be the case with another. Grow some thick skin, keep your experience to yourself and get on with life.
Posted: Thursday, September 1, 2011 11:40 AM
When an owner bypasses convention and abuses or diminishes the social rights of crew, people should know about it. Excessive working hours, continuously working without time off, withholding pay, failing to pay and sacking people on a whim and dumping crew in foreign countries with no resources to go home is unacceptable. This is not a matter of opinion; this is a matter of fact. I’ve been there and dealt with the consequences and feel it is appropriate to name names and force owners to behave appropriately. Ex-crew in their twilight years are entitled to their opinions, as are working crews whom deal with eccentric owners that believe the world revolves around them. The owner(s) who failed me lost me and found replacements for me, each of these replacements lasted as long as I did and left for the exact reasons I did. So who is the fool here? The crew member that thinks he can make it work or the crew member that bypased the opportunity to give it a go? Lets cut the B.S. the rich and powerful have the resources to do what they wish and very often take advantage of people, this is the way of the world. Having said that more often than not owners provide wonderful working conditions to people and give those willing to work a chance to make some serious cash and achieve.
Posted: Thursday, September 1, 2011 2:48 PM
Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 88

Well LeAnn, I guess it's fair to say that "thick skin" is relative... By this I mean that people post reviews of businesses online all the time (restaurants, contractors...angies list basically) and they are the opinions of individuals. I know a yacht is not a service provider like these businesses, but it's fair to say if a yacht earns a reputation (via high turnover, etc...) your beyond personal opinions. On "yachtie beware" I must give kudos...they wait to get 3 separate individuals to list an issue with a boat before they post it on they're blacklist...that's pretty fair. What isn't fair, are captains or owners who take advantage of crew once they've placed them.
Posted: Friday, September 2, 2011 1:14 AM
In my opinion, I am with Le Ann. Grow some skin! If you are not happy here, move on ! Have you any idea what a small percentage of life we live. You have the right to bitch but that is not what we are talking about here. We are agreeing to serve to richest and most exclusive people in this present world! You don't like it, take a hike.In my opinion, you sorry whiners are the main reason we have all this regulation now. STCW is not making us safer, it is a new generation of self serving people who would never make it in my generation of seamen/women. A lot of you have lost touch. But, then again, you were not a part of the world I grew up in. Most of you are whining ,complaining hotel staff! Nary a seaman among you !
Posted: Friday, September 2, 2011 2:20 AM
In my opinion, I also noticed that most of you, who are NOT Captains, Know how it all went down even though YOU were not there! It is a very slippery slope to judge Captains decisions when you are NOT the Captain or you are many miles away from the scene of incident.
Posted: Friday, September 2, 2011 12:21 PM
[Comment deleted by moderator]

[Please adhere to the forum guidelines and refrain from naming and shaming captains, crewmembers, owners and vessels]

Posted: Friday, September 2, 2011 5:32 PM
Who's talking about Captains? This is about owners and how they evade convention and treat crew with zero respect. Captains are crew and crew do as their told or they leave, it's that simple. -------------- WHAT IS THE MARITIME LABOUR CONVENTION? Adopted in February 2006, the ILO's Maritime Labour Convention sets the minimum standards to ensure satisfactory conditions of employment for the world’s seafarers. It brings together and updates over 65 other ILO maritime labour instruments, while introducing a system of certification and inspection to enforce it.This Convention needs to be ratified by a minimum number of ILO member states to come into effect - the European Parliament wants to see European Union countries ratify the Convention by 2008.Once ratified, ships of all countries will be subject to inspection in the ports of any country that has ratified. Ships could be detained if they are deemed not to have met the standards set. WHICH AREAS DOES IT COVER? The Maritime Labour Conventions covers: · An employment agreement, guaranteeing decent on-board working and living conditions, to be signed by both the seafarer and the shipowner, or a representative of the shipowner · Monthly pay, in full and in accordance with the employment agreement and any applicable collective agreement · 14-hour work limit in any 24-hour period, 72 hours in any seven-day period · The shipowner must pay to repatriate a seafarer in case of illness, injury, shipwreck, insolvency, sale of ship and so on · Specific requirements for living accommodation and recreational facilities – including minimum room sizes, and satisfactory heating, ventilation, sanitary facilities, lighting and hospital accommodation. · Access to prompt medical care when on board and in port Ships will need to comply with the Convention through holding a Maritime Labour Certificate and Declaration of Maritime Labour Compliance issued by the flag state, which must be available on board for any port state inspection. DO THE IMO AND ILO WORK TOGETHER? ----- Sometimes the IMO and ILO join forces to address issues of mutual concern. Two examples of this are the fair treatment of seafarers in the event of a maritime accident, for which there are now joint guidelines, and the issue of liability and compensation regarding claims for death, personal injury and abandonment of seafarers. HOW TO FIND YOUR WAY AROUND THE LEGAL MAZE ---- Exercising your legal rights can be confusing and difficult at sea. Claudia Bennett, of the ITF Legal Department, explains why. Have you ever heard of the old sailors’ saying: “Being at sea is like being in prison, only with the added risk of drowning”?
Posted: Friday, September 2, 2011 9:54 PM
Excellent points to consider, and always have a contract in writing signed by owner & crew member at least stating pay and how long you're comissioned. I don't care if it's on a napkin stored in a plastic bag and tucked away in your bags somewhere. I was fortunate to have the owner direct deposit to my account so I had a record until he stoppped paying when we were well out to sea for 6 months in international waters. Crew beware!!!! Some owner's believe "screw crew!!!!
Posted: Sunday, October 2, 2011 4:27 PM
Have to agree with Leane, with the vast personality differences, what one may consider "bad", may not be for another person. One point of consideration should be personality conflicts right from the get go. I would no more accept a position onboard a yacht when I don't agree w/ policy of that particular captain or owner, than board the space shuttle with a crew that has different ideas about the way things should work. Adaptability (unless there is flat out treason) is the best senario. Every yacht is different, every captain, crew, owner has their own way of running things. One of the lessons I've learned, during interviews, ask a lot of questions, gage reaction, and if the shoe dosen't fit ...don't wear it !! But by all means, what happens on the boat, stays on the boat!!!
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